[00:00:00] Fiona Johnston
We've made a lot of progress as a society in many of the areas that we needed to in the last few hundred years. But one thing that has not changed enough is money. If we want to be able to tip the scales towards the favor of marginalized people, we need to understand the secrets to making money in small business.
The more we talk about money and the secret. That usually stay at the golf club, the more likely we are to be able to make money. My mission is to get more money into the hands of good people, specifically good business people like you. This is Money Secrets, the place to learn about the money secrets of successful small business owners.
Because I believe small business can change the world, and in order to do that, we need to be making lots of money. Let's go.
[00:00:51] Fi
This podcast episode was recorded on the lands of the Wie people of the KO nation, and I'd like to acknowledge them as the traditional owners and custodians of this land and water that I live. Work and play on. I'd like to pay respects to elders both past and present. And note that sovereignty has never been seated.
This always was and always will be. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander land.
[00:01:19] Fi
Okay, so today I'm actually in the studio with Natalie Elz from Pin Studios and Mia FileMan from Campaign Del Mar. Hello. Welcome. Hi. Why don't you start by introducing yourselves. Nataleigh, tell us a bit about you.
[00:01:41] Nataleigh Elzein
I run Pinch Studios. We're a creative agency that basically helps industry disruptors get their message out there loud and proud, really rallying their troops so we can get a movement going. But I help them with their marketing and sales strategy.
Fi
Love it. And I love how you bring your acting and improv experience to Yes. A situation like this. Everything. It's life. Love it. And Mia?
[00:02:02] Mia
Yeah. Tell us about you. I am the no BS founder of Campaign Del Ma. I provide training and mentoring to female entrepreneurs so that they can create smarter marketing that pays off. And I'm also one of your business partners.
[00:02:22] Fi
You are! Yeah. So we all know each other really well. We feel like this episode's gonna be a lot of. Fun to create. Yeah. Now the Money Secrets podcast is about how to make money as a small business owner. And why I've brought the three of us together today is because I think the intersection of making money is business strategy, marketing and sales. This is how I think about it. And then I wanna ask. You for your thoughts. So for me, business strategy is what do you want your business to be and what are the steps between here and there? So how are we going to take the right steps and not the wrong ones? I see marketing as nurturing and attracting the right people into your sphere, and sales is about turning those relationships into paying customers. So Mia, how do you feel about those kind of definitions of business strategy, marketing and sales?
[00:02:46] Mia
Yeah. What I really like about the framing of this. Episode is this idea that you do need all of those components. Marketers are very good at convincing you that all you need is marketing and it's simply not true. And like, I get it. If you wanna believe that, that's fine, but it's not true. I do a lot of sales in my business and I have had a business before not be successful because the business strategy was fundamentally flawed. Mm-hmm. So I, I'm here for it.
[00:03:20] Fi
Love it. And Nat, what's your take on sales? And it's. A kind of relationship to making money in business.
[00:03:36] Nat
Yeah. Look, if you don't have the right product or the right service and actually selling that. Forward, no one's gonna keep coming back. You can have a great marketing campaign and bring everyone to the party, but if the party's not pumping, they're gonna just leave. And then that's where your reputation's on the line. So I believe focusing on the sales aspect, you know, those sales assets and how. The messaging is there, and also just the customer experience is really, really important, and that can actually then inform your marketing to be better.
[00:03:54] Fi
Mm, I love it. Look, I see so many businesses, like you've both said, just not getting the foundations right. It's like your business strategy is the foundation. You can't have a successful business without the right strategy, the right approach, the right kind of tactics and activities. Tell me, Mia, what are people getting wrong with nurturing and attracting people into their business?
[00:04:14] Mia
There are so many things, but I loved, uh, Natalie's analogy That was really, I'm, I'm a big fan of an analogy. What are people getting wrong? Uh, where do we even start? Okay, so first thing is that they're not investing in brand building. Mm. And so they've got a great idea for a product or a service. They either go straight to selling without understanding the typical customer journey or how customers make decisions, which is that we need to take people on this know, like trust journey and they go straight to the sale or they do the opposite and they never sell. Mm. They're constantly creating content on social media. They're building relationship. They're doing all the nurturing stuff, but then they never actually ask anyone to buy something and like, I have a sixth sense for this and I can look through the content, and I'm like. What do they sell? Yeah. How do I give this person my money?
[00:04:56] Fi
Yeah. I love that. I call it making the obvious, obvious. And what I find when I talk to business owners is there's these things that they don't put in the website or the social media because they're like, it's so obvious to them that they have forgotten to tell the rest of us about it.
[00:05:17] Mia
Yeah. And can we just talk about how, I've got a sales page, I've got email funnels, all the information is there, do people read it? I, I mean, no, like I get, I do sales calls. I call them discovery calls. It's not very salesy. We're having a conversation and everything that I say in those discussions I have said before, but we assume that everyone reads, everything we write, reads every post, watches, every video, and that's not true. The reacher of an Instagram post sits at about two.
Sense. So even though you and I, Nat and I, we work together really closely, I don't see half of your content. Yeah. So repetition and consistency to me are the two most overlooked components of marketing. Love that.
[00:06:04] Nat
I think also the consistent messaging. So whatever you're putting out on your Instagram or your socials, make sure that it is then reiterated onto your website and through your emails, because you wanna be known as that person who says, this feels this way, values this, and this is my approach. So that when someone does come to the sales call, it's like they already know you. Right. It's not anything new. Like what I say is a sales call, like you said, is a conversation. Mm. And that's how we should frame it. We're just building a relationship. We might not get the sale at the end of the day on that call, but it's just another step towards how can I help you and what do you wanna benefit from it?
[00:06:23] Fi
What are the things that you are seeing people getting wrong in that kind of the dance between marketing and sales?
Nat
I love how you said dance. 'cause I always talk about as like a tango, you know? So like basically them using them as silos. Whereas marketing sales really should be working together because if marketing supports sales, the sales function, so giving them the research and understanding the audience, then we can talk to our audience in a way that they understand what we're saying and what we're selling and what benefits them. However, sales then also has to talk to marketing and inform them this is what, like for instance, if it's just us as a solo business owner, then we can really like think of it like this. So if I go on a. Discovery call and I hear the words that this person is saying, I will then use those words in my marketing. Yes. Because I understand that that's what they resonate with and that's what their pain points are. Mm. And as soon as they recognize that, they're more likely to engage. Mm. So really using sales and marketing as a team rather than as silos.
[00:07:25] Fi
Love that. Yeah. Something I see people getting wrong with the sort of marketing sales dance is they're over-indexing how much marketing they're doing.Ah, yes. And under indexing their effort in sales. And I feel like people think that sales is like this kind of undefinable thing, but it needs a process. And I think people are getting better at building a process for their marketing. Like people are now seeing, Hey, I could actually plan out my marketing. Maybe I could run two campaigns a year if I'm actually planning properly. But then when it comes to sales, people are just like, no one's buying winging it or wing it, winging it. Yeah. Yeah. When really we should look at our business as if it's a leaky bucket and see where that lead is dropping off. Yeah.
[00:07:59] Nat
And then literally plastering a bandaid or building a better bucket so that we can fill that bucket with more leads. Mm-hmm. So for instance, like you were saying, like a lot of people do a lot of top of funnel content. Because it's easy. Mm. It's very accessible. We can just post on Instagram and it's fun.
And it's fun. Yeah. You know, it's the sexy side of this business stuff, but when it comes to selling, that's when we're like one-on-one with a person. It can get really scary, but again, if we just see it as an opportunity to have a conversation and reframing that. Yeah, that's where I see a lot of people going wrong.
Mm. But in terms, going back to the leaky bucket, it's like if we can see through like let's say Google Analytics, that they've come through the Instagram posts and they come to my website, and if they're dropping off there, we know that's the issue at hand. Mm. And we need to make sure that that's a better platform.
[00:08:44] Fi
Mm. I feel like my sales. Changed so dramatically when I started to own the process. Oh yeah. So it's like what I used to do when I was a baby business owner was like, hi, um, tell me a bit about yourself. And I was just nervous and didn't know what I was doing. Now I own that call. So that discovery call to me is like, yes, it's a conversation and it's a beautiful part of relationship building, but I need to drive it as the service provider. And I feel like. So many service providers are not willing to drive that sales conversation. And this also happens in product businesses. It's just that this is happening on product description pages and the like. But if you are a service provider who is claiming to be an expert, you need to guide your customers towards the right outcome. So what is the goal that you are trying to achieve? This is the best way that I can make that happen for you.
[00:09:32] Nat
Honestly, it's very much like an audition. Right. You are showing them how you're going to operate when they give the reins over to you. So as someone who does marketing, it's like they don't know what marketing they need to do. You need to drive that. I mean, they're already thinking about their operations, their people. They've got already like too many thoughts, too many juggling balls. They really just want you to take that and go, I've. Got this. Mm. You stay put if you need, if I need your opinion or recommendation, like I want you to be part of the process and we can co-design that. But that discovery call is very much a audition. And like even just in the acting world, we always say auditions are a 15 minute job. Mm. So you act like you are on stage or you're on film, like that is your job. And you go, oh, that was great. I really, really handled that really well. If I get another job that's. Perfect. And that would be the actual job that you'd get from the audition?
Mia
Mm. That's just killing it with the analogies today. That's amazing.
Fi
Analogy. Central.
Nat
I'm two coffees in my brain is just like really buzzing.
Mia
So am I babe. But I'm not on fire, like That's awesome.
Fi
Any thoughts from you about like guiding people through the sort of marketing sales journey?
[00:10:42] Mia
Yes, yes. So many thoughts. Definitely you need to be prepared and have a structure around that. That's something that I feel really passionate about, but also this idea of we have a discovery call and then that's it. They either buy or they don't, and we are like, we've convinced ourselves that a 30 minute or a 20 minute discovery call is our sales process.
Yes. And that is such bullshit. Yeah, there are so many other tools in my sales arsenal, which I'm happy to share, but like sometimes I'll do a discovery call with someone and they're still unsure, and then I'll say to them, Hey, would you like to come to a Marketing Circle session? Just to experience what it's like. And I have these little things that I can draw on, but we have been led to this point. Mm. There are these gurus that I talk about all the time, and I'm sorry that every conversation has to come back to them, but we've been told that you don't need to have a sales call that your long sales page and that you can. Sell directly from Instagram is enough, and that you don't ever have to go through the, the sweating process of getting on a call with someone and like, sure, I do make money from purely marketing. I'm at a position now in my business where people do buy from me without ever having the call. However, the path to list resistance, it's just getting on a call with someone. Mm. That can be a. Two or three week life cycle of someone going from a lead to a customer versus them kicking around my marketing funnel for a year or two. Like who wants that? Mm. So like, yes, technically you can put someone in an 11 part email sequence and they can eventually buy at the end of the day, but sometimes it's just easier to get on a bloody call. Yeah. Right. And can I also say from a marketing perspective, that the traditional sales. Sequence, like, oh, you've got a lead magnet. You put people into a multi-part email sequence, and then you keep hammering them with countdown time as about an offer that is not really working effectively anymore.
[00:12:28] Nat
Mm-hmm. It still works, but not effectively. Mm-hmm. And I think every bit of content, if it's a sales sequence, or even if it's. Just you following up that person, which is sometimes outreach is the best possible way. Yes. You have to realize that that piece of content is a piece of real estate, so you have to think intentionally of what you want them to do.
Mm-hmm. But I think of every content piece in that consideration phase as another building block. Mm-hmm. So if this doesn't get them over the line. I need to go a bit harder on a pain point that they have or something that they said that they can tell that I was listening to them. And then it's more tailored because the people that I work with, again, their cycle, their customer cycle is usually 12 months and I get that down to three mm And that's because we have the resources or the arsenal.
[00:13:09] Mia
That's amazing.
Nat
Yeah. To like really give them what they need at that point in time. Maybe it's a capability statement, maybe it's a case study, maybe it's talking to their clients so that it's not coming from us. Mm-hmm. So sometimes I go, well, if you don't wanna hear it from us, you can actually talk to one of our clients and they can tell you exactly how it works.
[00:13:25] Mia
Yeah, I do that too. I'm like, would you like 39 email addresses for Marketing Circle members? You can work through the list if you would like, oh, I'm a product based business. I'd love to talk to. Great. Here you go. Kelly Erickson, Kate Robinson, or maybe talk to now Casey, and they're like, okay, okay. Okay.
[00:13:41] Nat
Yeah. It shows transparency. Yes. Like we're not hiding anything. We're not trying to be slick with you. Mm. But we do want you to have the information that you need to be able to get that buy-in, because if you come to us as a service-based business or even a product-based business, if you buy something and you are not ready, I actually don't wanna be working with you. Yes. Because you won't have the experience that I want you to have. Mm.
Fi
I love that. One of the things we talk about a lot in Good Money Club is the follow up. Mm. And I cannot remember where I got this stat from, but I've read somewhere that most people follow up between three and five times. But the average amount of follow ups it takes is eight to 12. Wow. Right. And I dunno where the stat came from, so it could be just outta my own we'll factor armpit or whatever. We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. I find that really fascinating because people don't know how to follow up.
Mm-hmm. Or how many times to follow up. This is one of the reasons I'm really anti using ManyChat on Instagram is because Sure. If you're selling a $5 thing or a $20. Concealer or whatever. Sure. But like if I want you to invest in a really tailored, high quality coaching service with me, I'm not gonna ask you to DM me the word coach.
I want you to get in my dms, ask me the questions, get on the phone with me. And I wanna have that process where I'm not just following up with, Hey, haven't heard from you. Did you see my last email? That's how people follow up.
Mia
I have never in my life dmd a word. No.
Nat
Me neither. But that just goes to show, like if I DM a word that shows me that, what is their experience gonna be when I'm, they actually are my coach? Do I have to DM them or email them a word to get more information? Yeah. There's a secret password for each stage of being.
Mia
Exactly. But you don't get access. That's what that tells me, is that you actually don't get access. There's VAs and ODMs. And marketing coordinators and people coach, like sub coaches or whatever that do all the heavy lifting. And then the, the Messiah occasionally turns up every once in a while and delivers a masterclass and then pisses off and you don't actually get that. Yeah. Tailored experience.
[00:15:53] AD GOOD MONEY CLUB
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Good Money Club is the place for you. It is a six month program experience and membership where you'll get everything you need to build your bank account, grow your business, and increase your impact. We have no more than 40 members, so you get lots of really tailored and focused attention from me, and the doors are open right now, so head to my website, peach.bm.com au to find out all about Good Money Club. And if you are a good egg, a business owner who really wants to do great things for the world and make money and pay yourself more, good money Club is for you. Can't wait to meet you in there.
Mia
I think that's a really good point that's just come to me about this intersection of sales and marketing and business strategy is that we assume that people can make the link between this and that. Like I can say something on my sales page and I can think, well, that will obviously apply to your business. Yes. But they can't see that link and that's where the call becomes so important. Or, and I'm not just saying one call, it could be a couple of calls. Where I actually get in front of that person and I'm like, let me tell you how this is gonna work for your business, because having all this general information on a sales page is great, but they do struggle to see what that means for them and how I would approach it for their specific business.
[00:17:11] Fi
I love that segue into another topic that I've been just percolating a little bit, which is that I feel that there's a really missing gap between explaining to somebody why they should book your service or buy your thing, right. So in Good Money Club, when we're talking about making money, we're talking about who is the ideal client, what is the price that you are putting in front of them? What is the value proposition that actually applies to them? But most importantly, what's the outcome? What's the transformation, what's the benefit? And what I see with so many business owners is they can explain to me that it's a 60 minute session and they can tell me over and over, what you get is 60 minutes with me and a Zoom recording, and I'll send you notes afterwards. What is it gonna do for me? Like what is the outcome? And I feel like this is where the business strategy marketing sales really intersects. Because if you want to make money, you need to know who your ideal client is. You need to know what price is the one they're looking for that matches their value.
And you need to actually tell them what your service or product is gonna make possible thoughts.
Nat
Well, my mind instantly goes to the business design roadmap. Yeah, where you have those nine segments to ensure that one, your business is viable, but everything is speaking to each other. That business strategy is, yeah, your why, your purpose, and then based off that, it's like, then how are you going to, I guess, embed that purpose into the community?
That's through your services or product. Okay. Who's valued that? That's your audience. And then from there, you think about your marketing and your sales process, and it all has to link back to your. Business strategy because it doesn't align. People will see that.
[00:18:48] Mia
Mm. I've noticed this with the evolution of your marketing. Mm. So you've gone from, when I met you a couple of years ago talking about I help you with money psychology, and I help you with money management, and now you're fully owning the fact that you help people make more money. Yes. So it's like, okay, well we are at a and we wanna get to be what is b and b is more money. Yes. For you as your small business. And I've noticed a, a very different uptake in people wanting to work with you since you've started saying. I will help you make more money.
Fi
Yeah. And I think part of it is like, it's taken me a while to realize that my marketing statements are not me standing in, in a court with a judge with my hand on a Bible saying, you know, I will make you more money. And I see this a lot with really conscientious. Kind, ethical business owners like myself is that we're actually scared to say the real thing because we can't 100% guarantee it. And this is something that I see and you're so right. I have changed my messaging and a lot of that's down to your training and mentoring, but I'm owning the transformation, which is, I can tell you how I'm gonna do it, but the best thing for you to know is when you work with me. You are going to make more money if you follow my process.
[00:19:52] Nat
And that's the if you follow. So that really then puts the onus and extreme ownership on them to do the thing. Like they can't just sit there and expect more money to fly, like, you know, fall from the sky. But again, I think also your messaging, where it's really good is if you make more money or if you margins are great, then we make more profit.
And if we make more profit, then you're gonna make more impact. Yes. And that way then you're actually qualifying your leads because people who wanna make impact are purpose-driven businesses that will come into your, you know, ecosystem.
[00:20:28] Mia
Mm. Can I offer like, something that will help people to own those claims? Because I, I completely am one of those people that's like, I can't say that if that's not representative of my customer base, I'm not willing to say that I help people make more money unless it is true for the average of my customer base. So I did a survey of my members. It was called the Business Results Survey, and I said, okay, within six months of joining Marketing Circle, how much has your income increased?
10 to 20%, 20 to 50%, 50% plus, how much has your profit, how much has your email list increased? All, all of those things, and I had quantitative data. That 67% of my customers within six months of joining Marketing Circle increase their revenue by 20%. Mm. I mean, I, I, the hand is on the Bible.
[00:21:16] Nat
Yeah. And that's why it's so important to actually talk to your clients and interview them. So like when I go into a business that's a. First thing I do to building a strategy is like I want all your clients' names, email addresses. I will talk to them and ask them, how do you perceive business A? And if it's not exactly what they think they are, then I'm like, well, there's the gap and that's what we have to bridge. Mm. So it's so important. Understanding and getting, again, voice of customer or like that language, because then we can just put it straight to market and go, I didn't say this. This person said this, so it must be true.
Mia
I love that. Now that's awesome that you do that. Oh yeah. It's really clever. Thank you.
[00:21:45] Fi
Yeah. So what are you seeing small business owners get wrong with communicating this intersection of who my ideal client is, what the value I wanna give to them, and what this kind of transformation is? What are you seeing in the marketing world?
[00:22:06] Mia
Yeah. The biggest problem I'm seeing at the moment is that people are actually too focused on the transformation and then not tell me what's on the box.Okay. And I talk about this as like. A box of cereal. Mm. Like what is it though? Yeah. So like I see these statements like empowering small business owners to live their best lives. I'm like, Ugh. Are you an accountant? Are you a marketer? Are you a sales professional? Are you an injectable? Yeah, cosmetician.
Because like all of those things, helping small business or helping, um, empowered women to be more finite, like. It is just so wanky. Mm. Like that's what I see. Yeah. I actually need you to say, what is it Cornflakes or we bits or, or Nutri. Tell me what it is that it, you know, that you offer. And this was also really beneficial for SEO.
Yes. That if I get to your website and within seven seconds, I can't say fee is a business strategist, helping people make more money. Natalie is a sales and marketing consultant, and the owner of Pinch Studios who works with SMEs. Then we are done here. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Hard agree. And I think it's because people don't know.
[00:23:03] Nat
Yeah. They dunno what they do. So they, they use non concrete terms. Yes. And they use more fluff terms. And they're like, well, I hope this works. And someone kind of resonates with it, which they won't, because again, if they do and they're like, yes, I want a better life, and they come up to you and you can't actually offer that, they'll go, well, my first impression is, you know, you're lying.
[00:23:21] Mia
Yeah. Do you know what I hear? I don't wanna label myself. Yes. Are you serious? Yes. How many iterations I have had in my business? I don't wanna label myself. I mean, I have not heard anything more silly, like, yeah, we need to put a descrip. It's a, it's about description. Mm. I don't, I don't call myself a coach.
I don't call myself a mentor, so I call myself a doula. What are you delivering babies or business ideas? Yeah. Honestly, I just, it really, it, it really frustrates me because it's so as. As Natalie said, it's not concrete. Like at the end of the day, I don't love the co the name coach or mentor, but we have to choose.
Strategy is about choices and honestly, I, I talk about this with anger, but I did this, I avoided calling Marketing Circle a membership because memberships is a dirty word in the online business space, and I called it an ecosystem like a. Bloody moron than I am. It's a membership. Yes. And now I have had to fully embrace that term because it makes it easier for people to understand what serial they are talking to.
[00:24:21] Nat
Absolutely. Yeah. What my mind instantly goes to is if you wanna call yourself a doula, and that's something that you resonate with, do it after they've joined. Great idea. Like, because they don't know, these people don't know these terms that you've created. Mm. So we have to make sure that we're using words and language that they totally understand and can get on board with. But if you wanna talk about impact or what you're gonna do or whatever, do it after the fact. So it always comes to mind when, 'cause I work with a lot of firms and they're impact driven as well. And I said, yes. For the CEOs that you're talking to, don't care about that? Yes, like we need to be talking to them about retention and profit.
That's what they understand. But if the end user is wanting happiness, et cetera, then we can talk to them during the program, not during the marketing and sales phase. Mm-hmm. So it's knowing when to use your words and what language or what message you should put when. Yeah. That was a bit confusing. No, not at all.
[00:25:13] Fi
Okay. Yeah, I'm very passionate about the idea of how people use their homepage and their about page on their website. And so for me, business strategy is like, how do I actually get to the result I want the easiest way. And so what I think's happened in the marketing industry in the last. 50 years. Like you think about what marketing was like before we were born, it was subtle. It was all about reading between the lines and like it was delivered in this way. That was like you almost needed to understand some other language to know what they were saying. But I feel like now, because we have so much information flying at us, at every moment, we need to actually capture someone like that the second they land on our website.
Site. This is something that we work on in Good Money Club. A lot actually is like I will go to somebody's homepage and it takes me quite a long time to work out what they do. Now that is bad business strategy because what we want is for somebody to know who we work with, what we do, and what the outcome is, ideally in the first two sentences of their website.
And I also want people to consider that the about page of your website. Site is about your client. It is not about you. So if you are framing your whole website as being a portfolio or a resume about you, you are not going to be getting clients. You're making it really hard for your clients to quickly know, oh yes, B is a business mentor, a money coach.
She helps people make more money and impact. Great. That's who I wanna work with. So if the about page is about the customer, what kind of things. Do you like to see on that? About page? Mine says something like Business coaching for purpose led small business owners. So it's like click right, we've got it.
Then I say, this is how I do things. Love it. These are the kind of clients I work with. I've worked with other clients from these industries. This is why I love working with them, and these are the results that they can expect. So the person feels like the about page was written for them to read about them, and then I can talk about myself.
Then I can go into my credentials, my experience. My other clients, this is who you can talk to. And then now that you've worked out that you are who I wanna work with and that I'm somebody you wanna work with, then you can go to my work with me or services or shop page to work out. Do you wanna buy something from me?
[00:27:20] Nat
I think it's super important also, which I know you do, is put your approach so that they already kind of know what you do. I mean, if it's like business coaching, blah, blah, blah, yeah. But then it's like, well, this is my approach. Do you resonate with that? This is how we're gonna work together. And then go down to what you were saying.
[00:27:36] Fi
Yeah. Yeah. It's like my favorite word is how, how? How do you do this love? How do you do it differently? Everyone does the what? Yes. And they never say the how. And so that's why like when we're teaching, I'm just like, no, no. You're going to take away these tangible things that you can use because I've given you the how.
I love Simon Sinek, but I do think that we've overindexed the why and we've overindexed the what, and we're not focusing enough on how, how do you do things? How do you do things differently? Why should I choose you instead of somebody else? Why is important, but it's not a converter. But like there's, there's a million marketers and sell consultants and business strategies, what people buy into. Is not what you offer, but your unique approach to it. That's right.
[00:28:11] Mia
So I completely agree that on my about page, love putting in my process and how I do things, because like we were saying earlier, we are owning that process. Mm. They feel like, oh, there's a system around this. It's not just loosey goosey, she doesn't just wing this.
There's a evidence-based system. The other thing I like to put on my about page are my values. Mm. I, I don't love that on the homepage, but like the way that I do business. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your approach, as Nat said. Mm. So actually talk about what you do and why you do it. Actually talk about what you do and who you do it for. Exactly. Make the obvious. Obvious. Yeah. Make the obvious. Obvious.
[00:28:44] Fi
Yes. I love it. I think this is a fantastic place to end our podcast. Thanks so much for being here, ladies. It's been heaps of fun. Thank you so much.
Fi
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening right up to the end. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Money Secrets, where we talk about the money secrets of successful small business owners. If you enjoyed the episode, I'd love it if you subscribe to the podcast, but leave us a review or share this episode with one of your friends. I hope you learned something. I hope you got a new perspective and I really hope you enjoyed the listening experience.
